THE CONFLICT BETWEEN THE US AND RUSSIA
Sumi:
I am deeply concerned about the conflict between America, with its allies, and Russia. In one of our earlier interviews you mentioned a published interview of 1931 in which Carl Jung speaks of the two diverse natures of America and Russia. Jung also judged Europe’s position then as being midway between Russia and America. Does Jung’s Analytical Psychology offer us any perspectives on the tension between America and Russia as it manifests in the Ukrainian war?
Frederik:
Before attempting to respond to your question, can you tell me who gave the following description of the war, and when and where it was made public? If I remember correctly it goes like this: “The psychological concomitants of the present war are above all the incredible brutalization of public opinion, the mutual slanderings, the unprecedented fury of destruction, the monstrous flood of lies, and man’s incapacity to call a halt to the bloody demon.”
Sumi:
That is spot on. Unfortunately, I cannot tell you who spoke these words but it has to be an individual who is well informed about the root causes of the war in Ukraine and in other regions of the world.
Frederik:
These are the words Carl Jung wrote in 1917 concerning the lack of consciousness about the psychological root causes of the First World War. Jung also said in his last lectures in 1958 that humankind is psychologically in many respects still exceedingly infantile. You have only to read the newspapers, and study what is going on in politics. It is so unimaginably infantile, writes Jung, it is horrifying.
Sumi:
What would you say, in short, are the current psychological root causes for the Ukrainian war?
Frederik:
They are the same as those of the First World War. I cannot put it any better than Jung himself. He says that the First World War “has pitilessly revealed to civilized man that he is still a barbarian, and has at the same time shown what an iron scourge lies in store for him if ever again he should be tempted to make his neighbour responsible for his own evil qualities.”
Sumi:
The Unites States and its allies in Europe and elsewhere attempt like never before to isolate Russia forever, politically and economically. How serious is the current state of affairs?
Frederik:
Again, I am going to quote Jung in response to your question. In an interview in 1957 Jung emphasised that … “The world hangs on a thin thread, and that is the psyche of man. Nowadays we are not threatened by elementary catastrophes. There is no such thing in nature as the Hydrogen-bomb; that is all man's doing. We are the great danger. The psyche is the great danger. What if something goes wrong with the psyche? You see, and so it is demonstrated to us in our days what the power of the psyche is of man, how important it is to know something about it.”
I want to actualize Jung’s remark about the Hydrogen-bomb by saying that there is no such thing in nature as the Tomahawk, Storm Shadow, Taurus, Aster, Oreshnik and Burevestnik, they are all products created by the human mind. This clearly demonstrates to us what the power of our psyche is and how important it is for us to know something about it. Humanity is trapped again in the same psychic patterns as those that drove World War I and World War II. I am afraid that we are imprisoned by our general lack of psychological consciousness and doomed for the iron scourge that lies in store for us, as Jung puts it.
Sumi:
As an individual, what can I do? Where do I begin?
Frederik:
We must understand the necessity for self-reflection in our present catastrophic epoch. In reflecting upon ourselves we are bound to strike upon the frontiers of our own unconsciousness.
Sumi:
Thank you Frederik.
